Try a little tenderness . . . but only if you have a death wish *UPDATED*

A repeated thread in the comments lately has been the claim that the reason the terrorists are mean to us is because we’re mean to them. If we behaved more “morally,” they would inevitably yield to our good example. My response to this kind of argument has always been the same (and I’ll quote from my own comment, because I’m too lazy to retype it):

Regarding Gandhi: His pacificism worked only because Britain was not a nation that was going to respond in a bloody, violent fashion. It wasn’t Gandhi’s morality that won India’s freedom, it was England’s. The same holds true for MLK’s non-violent protest. While the South may have had profound racist problems, it was the fact that America as a whole was a moral nation that his tactics work.

When one has an enemy that revels in blood and conquest, that makes no secret of its desire for world domination, and that is vocal in its hatred and disdain for you, whether that enemy is Nazi Germany, Iran, or your average Islamist, your restraint and morality is not only irrelevant, it is a red flag before that blood-thirsty bull.

Forbearance cannot be a one way street. If all the pacifistic forbearance is on one side, and all the violence on the other, you simply end up with a bunch of dead pacifists — and, worse, dead pacifists who have engendered the slaughter of everyone else unlucky enough to be yoked to their sides.

The question in any war isn’t just your own nature, it’s your enemies’ as well. As Mike Devx pointed out in the same comment thread, while the British were initially somewhat violent in their response to the Indian riots, they pulled back, sickened by their own violence. The opposite was true for the Germans. Their tentative forays into aggression in the 1930s against Jews, Communists, homosexuals and the mentally ill excited their blood lust. Rather than pulling back, they accelerated the killing, and became ever more murderous and creative in their brutality. What finally ended the blood soaked orgy in which they’d engaged for more than a decade wasn’t their own horror at what they’d done, but the fact that America, once roused, had the military might to destroy that regime.

With that in mind, you should read Aaron Klein’s Schmoozing With Terrorists: From Hollywood to the Holy Land, Jihadists Reveal Their Global Plans to a Jew! or, at the very least, read the American Thinker’s review about the book (from which I quote, below). As the book’s title indicates, Klein, an Orthodox Jew, was able to talk to Islamists all over the world and they spilled their ideological guts to him. These guts show that, contrary to MSM and Progressive claims, they don’t want to live peacefully by our sides, their primary goal isn’t simply to clear the US out of Saudi Arabia, and they’re not at all interested in adopting Western values:

The Arab Palestinian leaders with whom Klein spoke are very candid about their dreams not only to wipe out Israel, but to establish a worldwide caliphate. Their plans for American society should awaken anyone who thinks the Arab terrorists are only Israel’s problem. And it should also smack awake all the moral relativists who equate Israel’s security measures with hegemonic brutality.

A deputy commander of Fatah’s al Aqsa Martyrs Bridade, Nasser Abu Azziz, explained to Klein that when sharia law is imposed in Western countries, “these sick people [homosexuals] will be treated in a very tough way,” explaining that the Islamic leadership will “prevent social and physical diseases like homosexuality.” All the terrorists whom Klein interviewed agreed that homosexuality would not be tolerated in the US once Islam rules.

And homosexuality is not all they condemn. The failure of western women to conform to Islamic standards of dress will reap harsh responses including, if necessary, torture. Sheik Hamad, a Hamas cleric, said those women who refuse to cover themselves in conformity with Islamic values would be punished either by imprisonment, whipping or stoning. And we aren’t just talking about Madonna’s bustiers: under the standard described by Klein’s interviewees, even Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg — who does in fact wear a robe — would be a target for stoning. She’s omitted the head covering.

[snip]

Klein’s interviews show that Palestinian leaders have also, and repeatedly, perpetrated a vile hoax on their acolytes. The myth of the seventy-two virgins in paradise who await each martyr is a theme echoed and believed by those who extol and consider suicide bombing an option. Klein’s subjects do not explain how the appetite for virgins fits with the love of Allah as an incentive for becoming a suicide bomber.

When asked about the source for the promise of the seventy-two virgins, Ala Senakhreh, West Bank chief of Fatah’s Martyrs Brigade, insisted such a promise was made in the Koran. When pressed about where exactly that promise could be located, neither Senakhreh nor any of his dozen henchmen clerics present could find such a passage. After much anxious searching, the Sheik became increasing hostile and Klein quickly left. He had apparently discovered the point at which the terrorists’ hospitality collided with their refusal to be questioned closely about their ideological weapons.

These are not good people, and wishing will not make them so. As Mike Devx pointed out, they are the modern equivalent of Nazis, people who embrace murder both as a vehicle to achieve their social and political goals, and as a pleasant pastime. They can be stopped only by brute force, not by peaceful example. And because everything veers back into American politics right about now, that fact alone is a good reason to vote for McCain over Hillbama.

UPDATE: Just so you can see the faces of the enemies of Western civilization.

UPDATE II: I’ve switched to a new server, so you can feel free to look around here or check out my new site, which not only has the old stuff, but also will move forward into the future with all my new material.

12 Responses

  1. After 9/11, many asked, why do they hate us? What did we do to get the terrorists mad at us? Many said that a reason for 9/11 was that the US supported Israel and not the Arabs. As if Clinton never had Yasir Arafat over at the White House! But insofar that the US did not support a Palestine with borders “from the river to the sea,” perhaps they had a point.

    I was reminded of a conversation my mother had with a Palestinian Christian grad student from the Bethlehem area, who lived at our house for two years, back in the 1960s. In response to his statement that the US supported Israel and not the Arabs, my mother reminded him of Eisenhower’s actions in 1956. Soon after Nasser’s nationalization of the Suez Canal, the British, French, and Israelis had invaded Suez. Eisenhower unequivocally ordered the British, French and Israeli governments to withdraw their troops. The Palestinian Christian’s response? Eisenhower did it only because of the Russians. Conclusion: the US is damned if we do, damned if we don’t “support the Arabs.”

    Some years later, the father of this Palestinian Christian visited us in the US. The father expressed his strong dislike to us of the Israeli occupation. The father had also given his children some advice well before the Six Day War in 1967.The father, who was employed in the Jordanian civil service in the West Bank, told his children to get out of the West Bank. The Muslims will not let Christians advance, they will favor Muslims over Christians for promotions, he informed his children.

    Also note that in Agony in the Garden, a book written in the 1980s about Nicaragua, the author recalls from his time as a diplomat in Egypt in the late 1950s, that Nasser’s radio station regularly referred to Americans as “ dogs, jackals, snakes …chimpanzees, hyenas, whoremasters..” ( p 58) Middle East tyrants for decades have used the Americans as whipping boys. While some dismissed such rhetoric, some of that rhetoric must have stuck. That is another reason “why they hate us.”

    I highly recommend periodic visits to the MEMRI website. The Middle East Media Research Institute translates the Arab media A visit to MEMRI will show you that what Arabs say to the West is not necessarily what they say among themselves.. Please note that some of what MEMRI translates also gives grounds for hope regarding the Arab world. There are occasional flowers growing through the cracks. Some maintain that MEMRI should be discredited because it is Israeli. My reply as a card-carrying Goy is as follows: when has MEMRI been caught in an inaccurate translation?

    Those who think that the US has gotten what it deserves regarding 9/11 and terrorists, are ignorant fools, or malign ideologues. I know that is not a polite description. However, it is in my opinion, an accurate description.

  2. ” Let the entire world know through propaganda ,speech,seminars, and media that terrorists have highjacked Islam,when in truth,Islam highjacked the terrorists ” . . . if you know what he means ? It is so cool to have a rep . . you know street cred . . colors,hats ,beards blah blah rage and all so cool so cool . . . It is time that religion grew up !

  3. Is there anything that is false in this historical view of “The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem”?

    Note the dates. In 1920 he instigated an attack against praying Jews. In 1940 he pleaded with his Nazi allies to settle the Jewish question in the Middle East “along the lines similar to those used to solve the Jewish question in Germany” and he “constantly incited him [Eichmann] to accelerate the extermination measures”.

    Ask yourself if the establishment of Israel in the late 1940’s, after the defeat of the Nazis, is REALLY the cause of violence and hatred against Jews…

    From:
    http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php

    Amin al-Husseini studied religious law at al-Azhar University, Cairo, and attended the Istanbul School of Administration. In 1913 he went to Mecca on a pilgrimage, earning the honorary title of “Haj”. He voluntarily joined the Ottoman Turkish army in World War I but returned to Jerusalem in 1917 and expediently switched sides to aid the victorious British. He acquired the reputation as a violent, fanatical anti-Zionist zealot and was jailed by the British for instigating a 1920 Arab attack against Jews who were praying at the Western Wall.

    According to documentation from the Nuremberg and Eichmann trials, the Nazi Germany SS helped finance al-Husseini’s efforts in the 1936-39 revolt in Palestine. Adolf Eichmann actually visited Palestine and met with al-Husseini at that time and subsequently maintained regular contact with him later in Berlin.

    In 1940, al-Husseini requested the Axis powers to acknowledge the Arab right:

    … to settle the question of Jewish elements in Palestine and other Arab countries in accordance with the national and racial interests of the Arabs and along the lines similar to those used to solve the Jewish question in Germany and Italy.
    While in Baghdad, Syria al-Husseini aided the pro-Nazi revolt of 1941. He then spent the rest of World War II as Hitler’s special guest in Berlin, advocating the extermination of Jews in radio broadcasts back to the Middle East and recruiting Balkan Muslims for infamous SS “mountain divisions” that tried to wipe out Jewish communities throughout the region.

    At the Nuremberg Trials, Eichmann’s deputy Dieter Wisliceny (subsequently executed as a war criminal) testified:

    The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan. … He was one of Eichmann’s best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chamber of Auschwitz.
    With the collapse of Nazi Germany in 1945, the Mufti moved to Egypt where he was received as a national hero. After the war al-Husseini was indicted by Yugoslavia for war crimes, but escaped prosecution.

  4. This is what terrifies me about the upcoming election: the idea that someone who actually _believes_ it’s our fault could wind up holding executive power in this country. God help us.

  5. Amen Trimegistus… Thoughts of President Obama can keep me awake at night. He simply does not see a threat that he can’t appease to ease. Unlike his supporters I am not willing to bank on appeasement to turn Islamic fascists into peaceful neighbors, and to convince them to give up their religion and to give up their designs on dominating the world with their oppressive form of Islam.

  6. and on a silly note, my MMORPG (EQ2 — like WoW but not) has occasional quests to study some monster or another and a few of them frame it as following the trail of a researcher who thinks the monsters are just misunderstood. In one the diary notes included the preparations for the “feast” after which the account mysteriously ends.

    (EQ2 also has the department of Gnomeland Security, which is funny every dang time I see it.)

  7. Hey Gringo, thanks for sharing the insight of your experience. Oh and I believe you are being too polite with “ignorant fools, or malign ideologues” description. Ward Churchill and others deserve much worse.

    I have to admit, I am curious to see what would happen should Obama become president. (and its looking more and more like that will happen). The only reason that I wonder if the peace approach may work is because I was raised a Christian.

    Matthew 5:39
    But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

    Luke 6:29
    If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic.

    This would not have worked with the Nazis. Clearly. So if the Islamofacists = Nazis then the Jesus approach wont work. The question I have is are they really equivalent to Nazis? If you read / listen to some of the nut jobs that represent them, its easy to believe that they are equally evil and beyond a peaceful compromise. BUT what if hearts and minds can be changed through a peaceful example? I am speaking of moderates, not the fanatics, they seem to be beyond hope.

    Of course Momar Kadaffy has warmed up to us, but thats probably due to our neighboring military action, which doesnt help the peaceful argument.

    Certainly something has to change. (there’s that in vogue word again, change) Muslims vs Christians / Jews. Its so old. Centuries old.

    Obama doesnt get my vote, but I doubt it will matter. I think he will win and we will see what happens in this experiment.

    Interesting times indeed.

  8. Synova, your not the only MMORPG’er here. I was in EQ way back near the begging. EQ2 lacked the magic of EQ1 for me. Currently spending time with friends in WoW.

    Cheers,
    J

  9. johnfromcolumbus
    BUT what if hearts and minds can be changed through a peaceful example? I am speaking of moderates, not the fanatics, they seem to be beyond hope.

    To a degree, that is what has happened in Iraq. The Sunnis saw our relative restraint, our trying to avoid killing civilians, and contrasted our soldiers’ conduct with Al-Qaeda’s indiscriminate killing of civilians. Recall the picture of the Iraqi child hiding behind an American soldier. That kid knew where he was safe. Thus the Anbar awakening. The Americans are less bad than Al-Qaeda, from the viewpoint of a devout Sunni tribesman.

    As for restraint, I would like to see some “accidents” near such places as Syrian or Iranian secret police headquarters.

    Of course Momar Kadaffy has warmed up to us, but that’s probably due to our neighboring military action, which doesn’t help the peaceful argument.

    No it doesn’t help the peaceful argument. Unfortunately, it also appears that his son has forgotten the lesson. http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
    Obama doesn’t get my vote, but I doubt it will matter. I think he will win and we will see what happens in this experiment.Interesting times indeed.
    Yes, it will be interesting.
    Many Americans, many of them supporters of Obama, make the mistake of thinking that while to a degree people are the same the world over, that the homily can also be universally extended to governments and political movements. Witness Nancy Pelosi, Chris Dodd, and JF Kerry making the pilgrimage to Damascus, following in the footsteps of David Duke. Perhaps Americans who make pilgrimages to Damascus and such places should ask themselves: would I want my family to live under the rule of these people?
    If Obama is elected, tries the “peace” approach, and it blows up in OUR faces- not just his- the response from the peace camp will be that it didn’t work because of all the ill will that the warmongering ChimpyBushMcHitler had caused. It will be a no-lose situation for Obama and his followers, even if the US loses. We just didn’t try peace enough, you see.

  10. “Regarding Gandhi: His pacificism worked
    only because Britain was not a nation that
    was going to respond in a bloody, violent
    fashion. It wasn’t Gandhi’s morality that won
    India’s freedom, it was England’s.”

    I truly wish that American commentators of the Right – with
    whom I agree on so much else – would temper their Alice in
    Wonderland view of the English with their own experience of Revolutionary War against the same Anglo-Saxons. They relinquished their other colonies with the same bloody
    reluctance that they ceded America to the Founding Fathers
    Ask the Irish (of whom I am one), the Kenyans, the Malays. Heck,
    ask the Indians themselves
    Don’t believe me? Google Amritsar Massacre, Black and
    Tans, Bloody Sunday (there are two of them!) Ireland has
    a long and bloody history of eight hundred years of
    attempting to get quit of them and they’re still hanging on by
    their fingernails. And, I can assure you, divil a bit of a high
    moral tone did they favour us with.
    By the by, Gandhi’s campaign took decades to bear fruit and
    Civil Disobedience was only feasible because he succeeded
    in mobilising five hundred million Indians against a British
    Raj numbered merely in the thousands. On top of which,
    WWII left Britain bankrupt and quite unable to carry on as an
    Imperial Power in India. They left India for the same reason
    the quit America and most of Ireland, because they had well
    worn out their welcome. India, like Ireland and the US, got
    her freedom because she fought tooth and nail for it.

    Don’t be fooled by the posh accents and Saville Row suits.
    The Brits are confined to their small, overcrowded island
    home only because the rest of the world eventually proved
    too hot for them to handle!

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