We must accept that we have been implicitly encouraging illegals to come here for years. It is time to stop the implicit encouragement. I can guarantee that an effective wall will cut down illegal immigration by at least 80%. Much of that reduction is based on psychologicy, as it includes the implicit message that we do not welcome illegals. A locked door and locked windows do not deter a serious criminal from gaining entry; but open doors and windows encourage nearly everyone to “come on in!”, and there are many people whose internal moral compass is not sufficiently strict enough who would view the open door and windows as an invitation. The fence, like a locked door and lock windows, tells that large number of people to move along. THEY WILL NOT CROSS.

But employer sanctions are absolutely necessary as well.

In speeding we need not ticket every speeder; the goal is to keep the traffic flow reasonably safe and controlled. Otherwise, various lanes would be occupied by travellers going 120 miles per hour, and even faster if they are able. THAT is the state of illegal immigration today. The fence, along with employer sanctions, with both efforts supported by a reasonable amount of enforcement, ends the terrible game we’ve been playing, by putting controls on the situation.

(Arresting protestors for treason when they actually advocate secession to form the nation of Aztlan is another goal of mine – advocating secession truly is treason!)

“The border crossed us, we did not cross the border”. Consider this statement, please. If “the border crossed us”, then they were here when the boundaries of the United States of America were formed, and they are American citizens. If they immigrated after that legally, then they have legal status, because they crossed the border. If they are here illegally, they crossed the border to do so. The statement, “The border crossed us, we did not cross the border” is complete nonsense. It makes sense only for those who were here already when the boundaries of our nation formed, and they do NOT WANT TO BE A PART OF OUR NATION. If they wish to form their own government, that is treason. They may leave if they hate us so and do not wish to remain a part of the great American experiment. No one in this country is stopping them from leaving.

But I am digressing now.

You made the further point that I didnt get to–that sanctions and pressure need to be placed on the parties with more to lose–the employers. The illegals have already demonstrated they have no regard for the law; businesses must however conform to laws or be shut down. Imagine any employer ignoring ADA,OSHA, or EPA regulations the way they do the law regarding hiring illegals. In other words, the government is well able to enforce the laws they actually have an interest in enforcing.

And Oceanguy, the damage being done to our culture and society by people who dont give a rip about the rule of law, is only exeeded by the threat of a huge swing toward a permanent democrat majority in this country–God help us.

Yes we have proved it. Might things be better if we weren’t burdened with providing services… schools, hospitals, jails, prisons, social services, housing… for 12 Million illegal aliens, not all of whom are paying their share of taxes? Yeah probably so. but the fact remains they are here and the economy is booming… we are not in immediate danger of government services becoming insolvent the way much of Europe is.

So, although many will argue that things might be better, the truth is that things are working well enough… still better than any other place on Earth. I’d say thats’ more than adequate proof we’ve absorbed them.

Have we? I’m not so sure… I think the jury is out on that one.

Yes, with economic opportunity, education and better health care here for the asking, we have INVITING millions of people here.

We’ve proved we can absorb 12million people, so obviously the rules need to change to make it easier for people who wnt to come her to come legally. But we need to create the climate where legal immigrants get the advantage over the illegals. Right now they do not. If we can create the environment that encourages aliens to use the border controls to enter the country legally, we can get better control of the borders.

If you build a fence they will go around, under and over as long as the benefits for living here outweigh the costs of breaching the wall. Hey, I’m proud we have a country that people want to sneak into. But if we put the human smugglers out of business, we can better differentiate the terrorists trying to blend in with common workers.

Focus the border control on real security issues and we can have a more effective border. Stepped up enforcement will only give us a temporary feeling of security until they figure out the way around it. Again, as long as conditions exist that encourage, even INVITE, people to come here illegally, we will have a problem… wall or no wall.

Like pacificus, I think self-deportation could be done, but I don’t think a few showy raids will necessarily do the job. It would be a combination of things. I don’t accept that this is a fait accompli.

For instance, many employers don’t even know they are hiring illegals because they hand the employers social security numbers and “valid ID”. Most employers don’t check that kind of thing, especially if we’re talking about minimum wage deal. We can do slow attrition deportation by checking these social security numbers.

For this to work, we should go aggressively against the employers. We should make it so expensive for employers to hire illegal immigrants that they would go bankrupt for doing it (more revenue for the government and stopping the hiring of illegal immigrants).

We can also deport our illegal immigrant prison population since we already know who they are. (We should. We’re paying for their daily living.)

From there, I agree with Michelle Malkin when she said we can do attrition deportation. If we close down our borders and do attrition deportation, we don’t need 200,000 buses. Who ever said we have to do everything all at once?

Now, I also believe that we should be very generous of illegal immigrants who genuinely wants to be Americans and not Mexicans or Colombians living in America. And they should go to the very end of the line of the naturalization process.

But for the most part, America really needs to decide whether we’re a nation or the world’s treasury department.

Short & Sweet: 100% concur. This is not a “dignity” issue as many, including our President says. Processes are already in place to allow immigration. Let’s revert back to those processes, as they have served us well for decades.

Have you attended any citizenship ceremonies? My last was in Boston as my Best Man and his darling wife were sworn in. The diverse folks in that hall showed some dignity as I was overcome.

V/r
-SJBill