Judging people by their friends and their enemies

Maybe it’s just my perception, but it seems to me that there’s been a certain sneering tone to the coverage about Bush’s visit to the Albanians — along the lines of “can you believe that those primitive yahoos admire President Bush (guffaw!!)?” Here’s part of the WaPo story, via the SF Chron:

Evidence of Albania’s love for the United States lined the road leading into this capital Sunday. U.S. and Albanian flags flew from lampposts. People wearing cardboard Uncle Sam hats milled in the streets. Oversize billboards and banners heralded the American president’s visit.

“Albania welcomes President Bush,” some of the signs announced. Others proclaimed he was “making history” as the first U.S. president to set foot in the country.

Throughout much of Europe — particularly in France and Germany — a Bush visit is frequently seen as cause for protest.

But in this former communist nation, Bush was accorded a hero’s welcome. He was awarded the Order of the Flag medal, the nation’s highest honor. His visage is on a new line of commemorative postage stamps, and the street in front of the parliament building has been renamed in his honor.

“I’m pleased that George Bush has arrived here in Albania,” said Anisa Torozi, 27, an unemployed office worker who carried a small U.S. flag in this city’s central Skanderbeg Square. “He is the president of the United States, which is the state of liberty and peace.”

It was the type of reception any president would like. But it must have been especially heartening for Bush, whose vow to foster liberty around the world has faced repeated setbacks in Iraq and elsewhere, and triggered an anti-American backlash in many places.

Thousands of protesters shadowed Bush during the German and Italian legs of his seven-country swing through Europe, but none of that was evident here.

Military cannons blasted a 21-gun salute as Bush’s motorcade arrived at the Palace of Brigades, the 1930s-era building that was once the home of King Zog, who reigned before World War II. Later, at a news conference, Albanian Prime Minister Sali Berisha hailed Bush as “the greatest and most distinguished guest we have ever had in all times.”

Bush returned the love — or some of it. He repeated his public endorsement of Albania’s bid to join NATO.

He also reiterated his support for the independence of Kosovo, a Serbian province under U.N. supervision. Ethnic Albanians make up the vast majority of Kosovo’s population.

“At some point in time, sooner rather than later, you’ve got to say: Enough’s enough — Kosovo is independent,” Bush said.

Responding to a reporter’s question in Rome on Saturday, Bush had said a deadline should be set for a U.N. resolution on Kosovo’s independence. “In terms of the deadline, there needs to be one,” he said. “This needs to come — this needs to happen.”

Asked Sunday about when he would like that deadline set, Bush seemed flummoxed. “I don’t think I called for a deadline,” he said. Told that he had, Bush responded, “I did? What exactly did I say? I said ‘deadline’? OK, yes, then I meant what I said.”

I’ve actually been thinking a lot about President Bush’s supporters. Not the old white shoe conservatives who are rather nastily spoofed in a Washington Mutual TV commercial I saw the other day, which has herds of exceptionally ugly old white banker types corralled all over the place, protesting all the myriad benefits WaMu gives its checking customers, benefits touted by a handsome, hip, young black man. You can just see the advertising minds behind that one thinking about tapping into all of the Obama supporters out there, by distinguishing them from their monied white oppressors.

Nope, I’m talking about some of the less expected Bush supporters: the Czechs, the Albanians, the Angela Merkels, the Nicholas Sarkozys, the Ayaan Hirsi Alis, and the Neocons. What all of these people have in common is that they’ve either been complicit in or victims of Communism or Socialism or some other statist ideology (such as Islam, which is statism decked out in religious trappings). People who have lived in and looked into those totalitarian abysses love Bush. They have no truck with the Soros, and Chomskys and Ward Churchills, and even the Hillarys, Obamas and Edwards, of this world, all of whom, in one form or another, and dressed up in pretty language, would like to recreate a United States in which the government, not the citizen, is dominant. And as I’ve pointed out time and time again, governments are utterly without conscience and will invariably end up destroying their citizenries to maintain the power of those who have risen up inside the government bureaucracy.

Bush currently stands as the antithesis and enemy of Leftism, Islamism and other forms of fascism (despite the fake cries of outrage about his daring to be a committed Christian). And I say that despite the fact that, sadly, he’s been a sort of blank check conservative, who has never met a cause at which he hasn’t thrown taxpayer money. He may be a spendthrift, but he’s still someone who believes in basic principles of individual and market freedom, and who stands as a bulwark against fascism, whether it’s dressed up as old-fashioned Communism, or medieval (or, some might say, new fashioned) Islamism.

So, next time you meet someone who sneers as a Michael Medved or a David Horowitz or an Albanian, ask them if they’ve ever considered why people who have been up close and person to the Communist ideal have turned upon it with such vehemence, and why they believe that the world’s salvation lies with a man (Bush) and a party (Republicans), both of which, despite their manifest frailties, nevertheless take a firm stand against dictatorships ranging from North Korea, to Putin’s Russia, to Chavez’s Venezuela, and to most of the governments in the Middle East.

UPDATE: After writing the above, I read FrontPage Magazine’s interview with Angela McGlowan, whose book Bamboozled: How Americans are being Exploited by the Lies of the Liberal Agenda, has just been published. The introductory paragraphs of that interview are yet another reminder that Bush/Republican supporters aren’t mindless white shoe hacks, they’re people who have seen the other side and recoiled in disgust:

FP: What inspired you to write this book?

McGlowan: Well, like most black Americans, I grew up thinking I was supposed to be a Democrat. It wasn’t even something you questioned or thought twice about. Black equaled Democrat. Then after graduating from college I moved to Washington, DC, and began meeting prominent liberals and Democrats up close and personal. And that’s when I had an epiphany of sorts; I realized that the values my mother and father had instilled in me were 180 degrees removed from the policies and passions of the Democrat Party. I came to realize that I, and the 90 percent of black Americans who vote Democrat, had been Bamboozled.

38 Responses

  1. Kudos, Book. Well said – you see things clearly from afar.

  2. Exellent piece, refreshing in it’s honesty. You see him in his frailties and his strengths, as it should be.
    I am working with many others for reconciliation between people of disparate faiths and believe me, there are many who understand the dangers of “stateism” as opposed to the worth of the individual. I would point out how ever, the vast majority of Muslims are fully aware of these dangers, because they have suffered under dictators since the fall of colonialism after the second world war. Their young nations are only now emerging to the light of day, and Pres. Bush understands this. I only wish he were more articulate in conveying it. Keep writing, you have a clarity that is badly needed.
    Rev. Bruce……Tawodi http://tawodi.wordpress.com

  3. Still working with the UN, eh Bush. I guess some people never learn.

    “In terms of the deadline, there needs to be one,” he said. “This needs to come — this needs to happen.”

    Working with Kennedy and the UN rather than against them, is a great way to make sure that what needs to happen won’t happen.

    I did? What exactly did I say? I said ‘deadline’? OK, yes, then I meant what I said.

    Classic Bush right there. Tolerant of the press to the extent of being subservient and humble; asking the press what you should already know as if they are people you talk to rather than talk through to the folks.

    Nope, I’m talking about some of the less expected Bush supporters: the Czechs, the Albanians, the Angela Merkels, the Nicholas Sarkozys, the Ayaan Hirsi Alis, and the Neocons.

    It is not about supporting Bush per say, because he is only a person; rather it is more about his office, the position he holds, and the nation that he leads. Those are infinitely more important, Book, and far longer lasting than the cult of personality. America is a force for good, counter balancing the evil in men’s hearts, and those who fight against evil naturally look upon the leader of America as a force for good. Course they don’t know him as well as do here in the US, at least those of the Non-Leftist BDS faction that is.

  4. It’s not too late – it’s never too late: anytbody can grow up!

  5. [[ insert typical Greg sneer here ]]

  6. Book, I think that you nailed it. It is about Bush and his allies outside the US. There are two aspects to US policy, internal and external. While the internal may, currently, be off-track, the external has always been right on. The invasion of Iraq was marred by the pathetic intelligence supplied by the CIA (an elitist, liberal, Ivy-League organization) which has consistently delivered horrible intelligence to the US military, and by military generals who earned their stars in the Clinton PC era. Unfortunately, his political guidance was just as poor. Nonetheless, out of all the possible results for such an action, only a very few would produce favorable press for the President. He still persisted and maintained his course without UN backing, yet with a large coalition. The current surge is working. Hopefully, the military will do so well in the next 18 months that even the MSM will acknowledge it. Otherwise, I feel the probable Democrat (not democratic) takeover of both Executive and Legislative branches will once again return to the old American policy of turning its back on allies and those allies will once again be damaged.

  7. I don’t think I can agree with this statement: “despite the fake cries of outrage about his daring to be a committed Christian”.

    I rather think that is true outrage. It’s fake when THEY or their leaders (ex: Clinton) profess to being committed Christians.

  8. There are people on the left and right with good intentions who wrongfully believe more government will solve the problems of our country.

    there are also people on the left and right with Evil intentions who take advantage of the smokescreen created by the chaos of the beauracracy that already exists as a result of big government. These people also have no interest in making the current existing government more efficient or better in any way. They like things the way they are.

    In the case of Bush, he has increased the size of the government under his watch, AND his administration has taken complete advantage of the smokescreen to hook up corporate friends and associates, and please the super-elite.

    Bush is getting his cake and eating it too, and getting away with it.

    if ANYONE is fascist, it’s GWBush and the Bush administration. if the policies and practices of any one American leader in the last century have been fascist, there is no question that it is George W. Bush, by a long shot. History will agree.

    There are many Democrats AND Republicans from the broken two party system who’ve contributed to the rise of American fascism, but none have have advanced fascism to the degree that the Bush Administration has up to this point.

    The decades long cold-war provided lucrative military contracts that built hundreds, if not thousands of super-elite-mega-rich–family dynasties due to arms races, pre-emptive war, etc. When the cold-war ended, they needed a new “never-ending” war to keep the lucrative contracts coming. They found it, and sold it to the American people after 9-11 using lies, deception, and most of all, fear. Not Hope, FEAR. Rationalizing in their own heads, the sacrificing of the souls of other people’s sons and daughters in doing so. It’s shameful.

    “And as I’ve pointed out time and time again, governments are utterly without conscience and will invariably end up destroying their citizenries to maintain the power of those who have risen up inside the government bureaucracy.”-BW

  9. if ANYONE is fascist, it’s GWBush and the Bush administration.

    And Baal thinks he’s one of the moderates on the left and right.

    Bad things happen on corroding foundations.

  10. [...] Bookworm Room, “Judging People By Their Friends and Their Enemies” [...]

  11. [...] it’s the Watcher’s Council that really likes me this week, because my post “Judging people by the their friends and their enemies,” which riffed off of the Albanian love for President Bush to examine the people and nations [...]

  12. What an utter delusional nonsense. Soros probably did more to defeat Communism than any other private person in the world. And the reason Albanians love Bush is very simple: they love him as an American President that followed Bill Clinton who fought for them despite GOP’s protests. Bush simply got love that rightly belonged to Clinton.

  13. [...] its picks for the most outstanding posts of the preceding week. The winning Council post was Bookworm Room’s post, “Judging People By Their Friends and Their Enemies”, in which Bookworm considers those [...]

  14. Soros probably did more to defeat Communism than any other private person in the world.

    HIlarious Book. Soros the Nazi collaborator defeated Communism.

  15. [...] me.” Actually, it’s the Watcher’s Council that really likes me this week, because my post “Judging people by the their friends and their enemies,” which riffed off of the Albanian love for President Bush to examine the people and nations that [...]

  16. Soros the Nazi collaborator defeated Communism.
    The “Nazi collaborator” stuff is plain slander.
    And if you’ve ever heard about “Velvet Revolution”, Polish Solidarity and Russian dissidents such as Sakharov you wouldn’t be surprised at all by such statement.
    But you probably prefer to believe O’Reilly’s “Soros conspiracy” stuff, which, I tell you, is almost 100% identical to “Soros conspiracy” stuff that is peddled by Putin, Iran’s mullahs and various Islamofascists, anti-Semites and ethnic cleansers.

  17. The “Nazi collaborator” stuff is plain slander.

    I already have a barrage of artillery ready for that.

    Now comes Peretz’s coup de grace. On December 20, 1998, there appeared this exchange between Soros and Steve Kroft on “60 Minutes”:

    Kroft: “You’re a Hungarian Jew …”

    Soros: “Mm-hmm.”

    Kroft: “… who escaped the Holocaust …”

    Soros: “Mm-hmm.”

    Kroft: “… by posing as a Christian.”

    Soros: “Right.”

    Kroft: “And you watched lots of people get shipped off to the death camps.”

    Soros: “Right. I was 14 years old. And I would say that that’s when my character was made.”

    Kroft: “In what way?”

    Soros: “That one should think ahead. One should understand that—and anticipate events and when, when one is threatened. It was a tremendous threat of evil. I mean, it was a—a very personal threat of evil.”

    Kroft: “My understanding is that you went … went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.”

    Soros: “Yes, that’s right. Yes.”

    Kroft: “I mean, that’s—that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?”

    Soros: “Not, not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don’t … you don’t see the connection. But it was—it created no—no problem at all.”

    Kroft: “No feeling of guilt?”

    Soros: “No.”

    Kroft: “For example, that, ‘I’m Jewish, and here I am, watching these people go. I could just as easily be these, I should be there.’ None of that?”

    Soros: “Well, of course, … I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn’t be there, because that was—well, actually, in a funny way, it’s just like in the markets—that is I weren’t there—of course, I wasn’t doing it, but somebody else would—would—would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the—whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the—I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.”

    Watch the spikes and don’t get skewered on them, Niko, at least not for Soros’ sake.

    http://americanfuture.net/?p=2579

  18. Do you think I’ve not seen this? That stuff had already been discussed many times, including comments on the post you refer to.

    http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001922.php

    Anyway, if you want real red meat Soros-bashing, check out those Stalinists:

    http://www.northstarcompass.org/nsc0209/soros.htm

    Islamic anti-Semites:

    http://www.radioislam.org/islam/english/jewishp/poland/sorospoland.htm

    Iranian mullahs:

    http://english.irib.ir/political/Soros.htm

    Try also Communists, Milosevic fans etc. — they all hate Soros with the same hatred and use almost identical rhetoric. Funny, one of the big anti-Soros creeds on FreeRepublic even cites _Pravda_ as its source.

    If you hate Soros so much, you might also write a letter of support to Ahmadinejad, who’s now staging a big trial for Soros activists, on the grounds of “Zionist conspiracy to undermine Islamic government”.

  19. Do you think I’ve not seen this?

    The logical bifurcation would be either you’ve seen this and are ignoring it, or you haven’t seen it. Since the latter has some shred of hope concerning open mindedness, I chose the latter rather than the former. Because if it was the former, then you are indeed taking a spike through the guts just for Soros. When that happens, there’s not much I can do for you.

    osted by steve at February 3, 2007 09:41 AM
    Comments

    Amen and then some. Thank you, Gerorge Soros, for your benvolence and vigilance in the cause of preserving freedom on our planet.

    Another one taking the hit for Soros. Household troops.

    Deceptive quotes?

    Kroft: “My understanding is that you went … went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.”

    Soros: “Yes, that’s right. Yes.”

    Soros feels no guilt over helping and collaborating. Why do you feel the need to defend him on something Soros himself feels no shame or guilt over?

    Kroft: “I mean, that’s—that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?”

    Soros: “Not, not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don’t … you don’t see the connection. But it was—it created no—no problem at all.”

    Kroft: “No feeling of guilt?”

    Soros: “No.”

    Kroft: “For example, that, ‘I’m Jewish, and here I am, watching these people go. I could just as easily be these, I should be there.’ None of that?”

    Soros: “Well, of course, … I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn’t be there, because that was—well, actually, in a funny way, it’s just like in the markets—that is I weren’t there—of course, I wasn’t doing it, but somebody else would—would—would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the—whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the—I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.”

    You see, Soros feels no guilt because he was just following orders. He was there because that was where people told him to be, he was with the estate valuer because that was where he was supposed to be. He did whatever he did in helping or standing by, because he was told to. It would have been done anyways, so he might as well do his small small part because this would allow him to survive and others to die, but he could have done nothing to stop the dying and property theft anyways. Just as he tells himself when he manipulates money markets to become a billionaire. Somebody else would have done it, he might as well do it first and get the benefits.

    And you pay no attention at all to these rationalizations, yet you still believe in them.

    It goes without saying that the activities of Soros are not limited to Russia. His guidelines are based on principles – he is an agent of a global, not of a regional government. Thus Soros has founded and manages an entire system of funds and organizations, promoting the legislation of drug use. Best known is his fund entitled “The Politics of Narcotics”. It is understandable that under the New World Order, the stupefaction of people becomes very important means of domination not to mention profits, as a pleasant side-line. But in Russia’s case, throwing the young people into the pawns of narco-dealers is not the same as legalizing drug addiction in the well-fed West. To give young people free access to narcotics in Russia ravaged by nation-wide misery means nothing else than genocide, the culling of an entire generation.

    Remember, Niko, it isn’t the same. It’s better, so there is no guilt. It would have been done anyways, except by criminals taking advantage of the young. If Soros’ network gains control via drug use first, that’s a good thing tm.

    with the same hatred and use almost identical rhetoric.

    Why would you be against the Democrats and Al Qaeda terrorists using the same rhetoric against Bush and the Iraq War?

    Forget about the Iranian Zionist conspiracy, Niko, doesn’t Soros and Co prioritize stopping the US first?

  20. You see, Soros feels no guilt because he was just following orders. He was there because that was where people told him to be, he was with the estate valuer because that was where he was supposed to be.
    Hey, I gave you a link. He was a 14-years old kid that was around when the man that was hiding him from Nazis was inventorying property of the rich Jewish family that fled the country. He _did not_ follow the orders, he _did not_ take someone’s property himself. What you talk about is a mistaken impression from a partial transcript.

    Forget about the Iranian Zionist conspiracy, Niko, doesn’t Soros and Co prioritize stopping the US first?
    No he doesn’t. The money he spent fighting Bush are minute compared to the money he spent fighting Communism. And Bush is not US, he’s merely part of equation.

    BTW, speaking about Albania, do you understand that OSI is very active there, that Soros is a honorary citizen of its capital and that Soros had contributed much more to pro-American feelings in Albania than Bush?

    And what do you mean by quoting this stuff from the site “Dedicated to the Re-Establishment of the Soviet Union as a Socialist State” about “drug-genocide”?
    Does it mean that you approve of the Stalinist propaganda? Does it mean that you believe the Stalinist propaganda???

  21. Why would you be against the Democrats and Al Qaeda terrorists using the same rhetoric against Bush and the Iraq War?
    The Democrat’s problem with Bush’s Iraq war is that he turned a bad secular country into Islamic state where women, gays and Christians are persecuted and that he insists on pretending that this Iran-II with its Sharia constitution is a “fledgling democracy”.
    Al Qaeda’s problem with Bush’s war is… what? They don’t have any problems, they love Bush.

  22. He _did not_ follow the orders, he _did not_ take someone’s property himself.

    I didn’t say he did. Soros himself said he was there and watched, even if he was vague on the details. In his own mind, however, he was following orders, he was doing what he thought he should be doing and there was no guilt because it wasn’t as if Soros thought he was deciding anything.

    Even for a 14 year old however, that kind of moral abstention is unethical. Combined with lack of guilt, and you produce the same environment from which all collaborators justified their behavior; their behavior as being necessary or somehow out of their hands. Even folks who talked about Vichy France said that the French weren’t to blame because they had lost the war and working with the Germans was just a natural consequence of losing.

    Collaboration is also known as going along to get along. Meaning, keep your head down, do what you are told, and don’t step out of line. Soros kept that template up quite well, by his own admissions hiding as a Christian from the executioners of Jews. The regime demanded certain things, you obeyed and lived. Simple. You don’t need to actually do anything evil or Nazi to be a collaborator to the Nazi regime. Soro’s conscience is very clean on that part. Too clean perhaps.

    Does it mean that you approve of the Stalinist propaganda? Does it mean that you believe the Stalinist propaganda???

    I don’t think you should think of youself as a judge of propaganda given your belief in the Soros propaganda machine operating globally.

    It’s obvious you don’t feel any need to address the factual points, you just label things as “partial” or as “propaganda” as if that is enough of an argument. But that is unimportant. I readily admit that George Soros is a smooth operator, with vast resources and projects across the globe; but you act as if this actually means something concerning who the man is, his character and soul.

    We here in the US directly saw the groups Soros was funding, we saw which candidate he backed for the US Presidency. And we also saw his efforts concerning the Iraq War. Not even the smoothest operators can create and maintain the veil of deception over the entire globe. Especially not when events have forced the man to react without the proper cloaking and masking preparations.

    You obviously believe in the man, considering your defense of him. But like I said, I can’t do much about that. Nor can you do much about the analysis conclusions derived from Soros’ actions in the American and Iraqi sphere of concerns.

  23. [...] the Man and his background, you may wish to read the last comments on this post-thread. Nikolay defends Soros with reason and ability. In the process, there has been some interesting links unearthed that [...]

  24. It’s obvious you don’t feel any need to address the factual points, you just label things as “partial” or as “propaganda” as if that is enough of an argument.
    I’m sorry, but when I see a web site that brandishes a red flag and Stalin portrait, I’m not really compelled to “address the factual points”, just as I would hardly address the “factual points” of the Holocaust-denial site with Hitler and swastika on its front page. I also tend not to take seriously articles talking about “Mossad agents” and the imperialist New World Order that destroyed the great Communist project by stealth. Obviously, you don’t have problems with that. Good thinking, comrade! Death to Zionists and Albanian pigs (another thought obviously implied in the article that you approve)!

    But if you really insist on this subject, one of the drugs-related program of Soros in Russia is about distribution of free syringes to help stop the AIDS epidemic, which is, of course, spinned as “helping drug-dealers” by shameless demagogues. He doesn’t promote legalization of marijuana in Russia, but marijuana doesn’t kill people anyway.

    We here in the US directly saw the groups Soros was funding, we saw which candidate he backed for the US Presidency.
    The only thing you know about Soros is that he was against Bush. That’s the only thing you want to know, and you won’t be bothered by the fact that he, I repeat, was the man that did more than any other private person to defeat Communism and that he is one of the main reasons that Albania is so pro-American that it even loves Bush.

  25. If you really want to hash over the propaganda versions over the control through drug scheme, then that’s okay. I can do that.

    http://www.fmr.no/george-soros-agenda-for-drug-legalization-death-and-welfare.78404-10285.html

    Described by the New York Times as “The world’s single largest donor” (Dec. 17,1996), Soros uses his philanthropy to change – or more accurately deconstruct – the moral values and attitudes of the Western world, and particularly of the American people. While others give to the arts and higher education or to better the quality of the lives of their fellow men, Soros funds campaigns for euthanasia and to legalize illegal drugs.

    George Soros, who made billions plying the markets, last month set himself up as its strongest opponent in an Atlantic Monthly article titled “The Capitalist Threat.” He writes that “Totalitarian ideologies like communism and Nazism have a common element: they claim to be in possession of the ultimate truth.” He observes that laissez faire capitalism makes the same claim as well. Admitting, that Communism and Nazism were murderous, he nonetheless asserts that laissez-faire capitalism poses a future menace greater than both.

    Soros’ article is intellectually incoherent. In his critique of capitalism’s failings he makes reference to the famous Austrian economist FA Haiku as well as Adam Smith, the father of modern economics. Yet he neglects to mention that both Haiku and Smith believed that a moral society is a prerequisite for a capitalistic system; the two go hand in hand.

    Soros concludes that “the time is right for developing a conceptual framework based on our fallibility.” It would have been refreshing had be acknowledged his own fallibility. Unfortunately, Soros’ financial success has persuaded the American media and an unsuspecting public to pay attention to his vacant philosophizing. That success is also underwriting some very regrettable grant making that is already making its mark on public policy – and undermining the moral foundation that supports our capitalist economy.

    The thing about the legalized drug position of Soros is pretty simple. Drugs are a way to control people. Soros has studied under the masters, both Nazi and Soviet, concerning the methods of control. Moral, economic, financial, etc. He lacks physical control (intimidation) and military control, but of course Jews were always deficient on those fronts. Cultural problem, I believe. But anyways, let’s get to the meat that you object to.

    It goes without saying that the activities of Soros are not limited to Russia.

    True or false?

    His guidelines are based on principles – he is an agent of a global, not of a regional government.

    I think that is true, a global agent. True or false in your opinion?

    Thus Soros has founded and manages an entire system of funds and organizations, promoting the legislation of drug use.

    True or false? It is kind of obvious Soros has founded and manages an entire system of funds and organizations. And does promote the legislation of legalized drug use.

    Best known is his fund entitled “The Politics of Narcotics”. It is understandable that under the New World Order, the stupefaction of people becomes very important means of domination not to mention profits, as a pleasant side-line.

    It is true, decadence via drug use and sex and various other things, are a form of control. People know the movie Soma? That’s one way. Anti-Depressants are themselves a form of keeping the population in check. Not a good thing, but a way. An unethical capitalist can make profit from all kinds of unethical drug selling actions.

    But in Russia’s case, throwing the young people into the pawns of narco-dealers is not the same as legalizing drug addiction in the well-fed West. To give young people free access to narcotics in Russia ravaged by nation-wide misery means nothing else than genocide, the culling of an entire generation.

    This is probably where you get to the Russian conclusion-message thing. This doesn’t matter to me because this is a Russian problem, so I don’t even take sides here. They have it incorrect about the “well fed West”, given that the poorest here in the US suffer from addiction more than the rich folks in Hollywood. It is what has given the Mexican drug cartels the firepower and manpower to control large swaths of territory, towns, and people.

    Obviously, you don’t have problems with that. Good thinking, comrade! Death to Zionists and Albanian pigs (another thought obviously implied in the article that you approve)!

    I’ve seen too many propaganda projects, both insane and competent, to feel any personal affront at reading or viewing propaganda now a days, Nikolay. I view it as any tool, be aware of the dangers, understand how it may be used, and find a way to use it to your advantage. My advantage translates as being the continued prosperity and strength of the United States.

    Not even the Left’s Valerie Plame operation or their character assassination of Petraeus, Bush, Wolfowitz, Rumsfield, and Petraeus engenders any great feeling of negativity on my part. Sure I feel anger at injustices being inflicted on innocents as anyone properly loyal to Aristotle’s Virtue Theory would, but it is pointless to feel anger at what you cannot affect. Anger is a useful energy that may be harnessed and bottled to inflict crippling injuries on the enemy, if released in a controlled and coordinated manner.

    You act as if the very existence of Soviet propaganda is the bane of existence, the most evil of evil. Get a grip man. To fight evil one must see through it, and you can’t see through it if you are emotionally involved, say with defending Soros. Emotion is a weapon, and as with propagandists with propaganda, you should becareful getting too close to your weapon.

    But if you really insist on this subject, one of the drugs-related program of Soros in Russia is about distribution of free syringes to help stop the AIDS epidemic, which is, of course, spinned as “helping drug-dealers” by shameless demagogues. He doesn’t promote legalization of marijuana in Russia, but marijuana doesn’t kill people anyway.

    Look, whatever Soros is doing in Russia is his and your business. I’ve specifically said that my analysis comes from the American model and perspective. I’m not making any statements or conclusions about Soros in Russia or Albania or whatever. Bookworm mentioned Soros’s popularity in Albania, but that’s a subject that requires outside research verification and isn’t the subject of what I’m writing about.

    The only thing you know about Soros is that he was against Bush.

    We know a lot more than that, Nikolay. For one thing, we know that Wolfowitz resignation from the World Bank is due to Soros affiliated proxies and corrupted bureacrats inside the World Bank itself. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

    Arizona’s Tough On Crime Campaign

    Arizona’s initiative differed from California’s, as did its more than $1.5 million ad campaign. In Arizona, out-of-state contributors represented over 70 percent of the total expenditure on the campaign. The Arizona measure was brazenly sold as a tough on-crime initiative. The language of Proposition 200 calls for multiple offenders of state drug, laws to serve their full sentences. But it prohibits judges from sending non-violent drug, offenders to prison until their third offence. In other words, ‘2-strikes-and you’re out’ – of jail. Moreover, the initiative is not limited to “medical” marijuana. It allows physicians to prescribe any of the 117 currently illicit (schedule 1) drugs. This includes LSD, heroin, crack cocaine, and methamphetamine, none of which have received FDA approval or possess any recognized medical benefit. The law simply requires a written prescription and the concurrence of two physicians.

    Personally, marijuanna doesn’t matter to me in terms of “crime control” because you can divorce marijuanna from crime. And marijuanna itself is not very good as a control drug for people’s behaviors or thoughts. But the ones listed under Arizona law however… that’s different. Meth and Crystal Meth produces an intense addiction that basically makes a zombie out of a person, that person just becomes an appendage of the addiction. He or she will do anything, steal anything, kill anybody, to get enough money for the addiction. A perfect, well amost perfect, control drug. One that is even made from regular cold medicine. Ephedrine and pseudo-ephedrine.

    was the man that did more than any other private person to defeat Communism and that he is one of the main reasons that Albania is so pro-American that it even loves Bush.

    Why do you think this matters to me? Russia basically executed 27 million of their own people, more than 80% of their then current generation of males, in order to defeat Hitler and Nazism. Do you somehow think I am supposed to give Stalin my thanks for that just because I wanted to defeat Hitler and Nazism?

    The network of alliances, deceptions, frabrications, betrayals, non-aggression packs, and national loyalties are too complex for a simple thing as “Soros made Albania pro-American” to be true. It doesn’t even work for an individual, meaning me. Nobody loves anything or anybody because of one man. I don’t. I don’t love America because of Bush. I don’t think positively of Bush because of America, and I don’t think negatively of Bush because of Soros.

    Some things are simple. But when Soros begins to weave the web of lies and deception, simplicity goes out the window.

    And the reason Albanians love Bush is very simple: they love him as an American President that followed Bill Clinton who fought for them despite GOP’s protests. Bush simply got love that rightly belonged to Clinton.

    Comment by Nikolay | June 15, 2007

    On the same subject here; the love of one nation for another man or even one man for another human being is never ever simple, Nikolay.

    The inability to understand human nature prevents you, Niko, from resisting the manipulation of people like Soros. Because you can only truly manipulate what you can understand, you may only truly deceive if you understand the underlying truths behind the deception.

    I’ve see many people make the attempt, the Left included, and they have never seen through the Veil of Illusion (whether Plato or Indian philosophy) without also concurrently understanding basic human principles and behaviors; motivations as well given human desires.

    Whether they were strangers or family, friends or acquaintances, the inability to truly understand another person has always created barriers to the truth.

    Neo-Neocon and Bookworm were always exceptions to the norm. They were and are still special in the range of human variations and personalities. Soros is special as well, just not on the side of light.

    Even if I grant that Soros did all that you said he did for the people under Communism, it was never for them; it was always for himself, Soros, and nobody else. Be grateful for what he did by all means, but don’t misjudge the man. Just as Stalin’s invasion of Berlin wasn’t for the people in Berlin, it was an act of self-serving preservation given that Hitler had broken their Non-Aggression Pact.

    Propaganda cannot make a person believe, that is the good thing about it; that it allows free will. But there are other methods than propaganda that may be used.

  26. He doesn’t promote legalization of marijuana in Russia, but marijuana doesn’t kill people anyway.

    If that is true, as you stated, Niko, then it is pretty serious. Because it raises the question of why would Soros bring marijuana and hard drug usage to the US but not to Russia.

    Soros is complex of course, I readily understand that he cannot directly control all of his proxies and funded hitmen/saboteurs/propagandists.

    I will revise something else I said. I said that “Nobody loves anything or anybody because of one man.” That’s not true all the time, because we all know cult of personalities. Those people that base love and devotion on one man with the “plan”, without any higher loyalty to humanity or the common good.

    It would be a lot more accurate to say that nobody loves anything or anyone because of one single factor. That is still always true. George Soros cannot be all things to everyone, all the time. Even he has limits.

  27. Soros has studied under the masters, both Nazi and Soviet, concerning the methods of control. Moral, economic, financial, etc. He lacks physical control (intimidation) and military control, but of course Jews were always deficient on those fronts.
    Man, are you gonna give me quotes from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion next? This is just wild.
    All this “drugs control conspiracy” stuff is 100% wild. Legalizing marijuana is pretty much a default libertarian position. The damage from marijuana is 1000% smaller than from alcohol. Fighting marijuana laws is not different from fighting Prohibition in the thirties. “Totalitarian control” is not about letting people smoke pot, it’s about punishing people for smoking pot, and it’s Orwellian to claim otherwise.

    This doesn’t matter to me because this is a Russian problem, so I don’t even take sides here.
    Hey, here‘s a typical picture from the site we’re discussing. Would you want to discuss its factual accuracy?
    That “Lucifer” article speaks about “inhuman threat” that flickered in the eyes of Margaret Thatcher. Do you really want it to be taken seriously?

    I’m not making any statements or conclusions about Soros in Russia or Albania or whatever. Bookworm mentioned Soros’s popularity in Albania, but that’s a subject that requires outside research verification and isn’t the subject of what I’m writing about.
    Hey, the subject of this post was judging people by their friends and their enemies. Soros’s enemies: Communists, mullahs, anti-Semites. And, curiously, Bill O’Reilly. Soros’s friends: anti-Communists all over the world, anti-Islamists, anti-totalitarians. And Albanians.
    Bookworm didn’t mention his popularity in Albania, she talked about Bush’s popularity there and claimed (erroneously) that Albanians do not care for “Soros of this world”.
    If you think that you can’t judge people by their friends and enemies, why even go there?

    It’s also kind of strange of you to talk about “dangers of being simplistic” while claiming that Soros would never do anything to defeat Communism because of some vague story from his childhood. Well, now you seem to concede the fact that he, indeed, did some good, but for bad motives, even though proving his “bad motives” takes much more intellectual trickery than “Bush went to war for oil and Haliburton”.
    I, personally, know about countless good things done by OSI that didn’t bring Soros any profit whatsoever.

    I’m not claiming that Soros is a living saint or whatever, but painting him as demonic figure is just crazy.

    For one thing, we know that Wolfowitz resignation from the World Bank is due to Soros affiliated proxies and corrupted bureacrats inside the World Bank itself. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
    Because some insider with self-interest said so. That settles it.

    Meth and Crystal Meth produces an intense addiction that basically makes a zombie out of a person, that person just becomes an appendage of the addiction. He or she will do anything, steal anything, kill anybody, to get enough money for the addiction. A perfect, well amost perfect, control drug.
    Hey, I’m not a fan of Meth, but I don’t see this article, for which you don’t even give a link, proves much.

    Nobody loves anything or anybody because of one man. I don’t. I don’t love America because of Bush. I don’t think positively of Bush because of America, and I don’t think negatively of Bush because of Soros.
    You’re waxing philosophical, in the vein of Tolstoy’s “the individual’s role in history”. Soros didn’t “inspire Albania by his personality”, he merely spent a lot of effort and money helping them built social institutions and protecting their co-nationals from Milosevic’s ethnic cleansers. He didn’t do everything for Albanians, merely more than most other people.

  28. The link’s in the beginning of my post, so what are you talking about?

    Let me reframe the philosophical context that you mentioned at the end of your comment. You said Soros didn’t do everything himself, well that is obvous given that Soros operates through intermediaries, funds, organizations, and proxies. Soros got rich by speculating and money exchange rates, and perhaps some other schemes and regulated patterns. He didn’t go out with his two hands to forge an Empire or something, I recognize it. So I don’t disagree with you about what you said about Soros at the end of your comment. However, what does that then have to do with Soros being the cause of Albanians loving Bush? You are the one after speaking of Albanians loving even Bush because of Soros and Clinton. The philosophical viewpoint thus becomes very important because of that.

    The only thing you know about Soros is that he was against Bush. That’s the only thing you want to know, and you won’t be bothered by the fact that he, I repeat, was the man that did more than any other private person to defeat Communism and that he is one of the main reasons that Albania is so pro-American that it even loves Bush.

    You can see the formation of my point more clearly, I hope. It may be true that Soros contributed to many things and is part of many people’s reasonings, but why would Soros’ actions make them love Bush? Why would it even be one of the reasons, given that Soros is an enemy of Bush? So obviously, stating that the existence of Soros’ help or lack of it helps people in Albania love Bush is… somewhat off key.

    Legalizing marijuana is pretty much a default libertarian position.

    Every man and woman has a limit to their power. The problem with Soros is he thinks there are no limits on his power. Godlike mania complexes are never a good thing. Do you really believe that Soros will be satisfied with his proxy groups and legalization of marijuana? That his feverish desires will not propel him to something else that he believes to be the Good? It will not end with marijuana. That’s something I can only say for those who are truly wealthy and powerful. Since for most people, they would run out of money smoking marijuana first.

    It’s also kind of strange of you to talk about “dangers of being simplistic” while claiming that Soros would never do anything to defeat Communism because of some vague story from his childhood.

    That’s not what I claimed. If you run through the logic, you will see that collaboration has nothing to with any love or loyalty to a Nazi regime or ideology. It is self-survival, pure and simple. Self-survival being a human hardwired instinct, it is very very simple. Not as complex as human feelings, ethics, and dreams. After all, you and I know that Hitler once was allied with Stalin in dividing up Poland. Does this somehow mean that because Hitler and Stalin did that, that they would never try to destroy each other? Come on. Of course Soros might do something to defeat Communism, but none of that is all that relevant to what I care about. Soros is done with Communism and has no focused on the US’s free market systems.

    I, personally, know about countless good things done by OSI that didn’t bring Soros any profit whatsoever.

    The techniques of control, power, and deception has little to anything to do with obtaining wealth. Wealth is just a tool, not the goal. True power comes at a price, and Soros has already paid some of that price via the capture of one of his proxy agents by Iran. Perhaps more than one. Soros understands as well as I, that to obtain true power, you must sacrifice some critical capital assets (financial) as well as people (loyal folks).

    Nobody comes out of a war with 100% unit integrity. Nobody.

    Regardless of whether Soros did “good” things or not, doesn’t really matter. It is what he is doing now and his ultimate goals that matter. After all Hamas and Hizbollah, as you well know, have provided welfare nets to countless thousands of people that would have suffered without them. How much good do you think you can do by talking about the good things Hamas and Hizbollah have done?

    Don’t get too worried about Soros being compared to Hizbollah, Soros is far too powerful and special for that kind of crude comparison. I’m just giving you a communication analogy, to communicate what I mean by “good things done are irrelevant”.

    Because some insider with self-interest said so. That settles it.

    Where do you get that from? The objective analysis of the attacks on Wolfowitz’s companion is in the public records. Christopher Hitchins has it himself, and he is enough of a propagandist-debater to understand the methods at play. Besides, Wolfowitz basically opened all of his defenses when he got sucked into the trap, when the World Bank allowed his companion near him professionally. When I say Wolfowitz opened his defenses, this is relevant because this is an invitation to attack, and attacks were what he got. But nobody would have attacked Wolfo had Wolfo been working for Soros and the anti-Bush league. We know this because there are plenty of World Bank figures, bureacrats, and EU cogs with actual trophy girlfriends put on display using professional power.

    Inside information has nothing to do with this. This is all public sector stuff.

    Hey, here’s a typical picture from the site we’re discussing. Would you want to discuss its factual accuracy?

    The factual accuracy of a picture? Who are you kidding here? I’m talking about the factual accuracy of the quote I used that you said was Communist propaganda and said I supported the site/implications, making it look like I supported the propaganda of Communists. Hello here, just answer the questions of whether you think those specific passages or true or false. Can’t be that complicated unless you’re dodging and evading by attacking the character of your opponent. The Communist practice of liquidating and purging a political opponent is long gone, comrade.

    I just looked at that picture and it was really funny, because this photo must have been done after the Nazi-Soviet pact was broken. You would have seen something else before. The Soviets had the most compartamentalized mindsets I’ve ever witnessed. They could switch from “We’re against the Imperialist pigs with our German brothers in arms” to “We’re facing off against the fascistic fascists, with our friends of the West”. Amazing. Not even the Left here in the US could emulate that kind of doctrinal loyalty.

    If you think that you can’t judge people by their friends and enemies, why even go there?

    hey, you know that you’re a friend of Soros right? So this makes Iran your natural enemy right? No. Iran’s your ally right now, given your comments of an Iran II in Iraq. Your efforts directly contradict US efforts to push Iran back. I told you before, the network of alliances isn’t a simple “if this then that” logic result, Niko. Sure, theoretically if you could get a list of who everyone’s enemies and allies were, then you could be set and just trace the connections like the US did with Saddam’s family connections in order to capture him alive. But you can’t do that Niko, because you don’t know half of Soro’s allies to begin with. Nobody knows, given Soros’ extensive network of proxies and financial institutes and various other apparatus he controls or funds or influences.

    Talking in generalities like “Albanians are friends with Soros” is ridiculous on its face. Friendships are made between individuals, and you don’t care about individuals. (or even list them with anecdotes) Because individual relationships for everyone requires a quantum computer to map out, in this 6 billion human planet of ours.

    Book is right on principle, that you can judge a person based upon his enemies and friends. But you have to get his enemies and friends correctly, and you just don’t do that Niko for Soros, Bush, or anyone else for that matter (like me when you accused of supporting whatever).

  29. [...] one of my own posts for consideration in the upcoming nominations process. Here is the most recent winning council post, here is the most recent winning non-council post, here is the list of results for the latest vote, [...]

  30. Hey, jewish boys do Bar mitzvah at 13; after that they are adults! They take on their own sins, and that’s a big few for George! His family was poor; he stole from the rich; the child was father to the man; he’s still stealing! Being a Jew has nothing to do with it!
    BTW, I would feel a lot more comfortable if it were Georgie boy himself, and not one of his sycophants, who was presently being charged with espionage by the Iranians!

  31. Does the preceding comment make any sense to anyone?

  32. None whatsoever, not to me. This post makes swampy seem articulate. No small trick that.

  33. You may have found your Curly to Greg’s Moe and Swampy’s Larry.

  34. [...] in the Council category is “Judging People By Their Friends and Their Enemies” by Bookworm Room. Finishing second was yours truly for ““And the Wall Came a Tum-ba-lin’ [...]

  35. Does the preceding comment make any sense to anyone?

    Comment by Bookworm | June 19, 2007

    80% sense, Book, to me. But then, I’ve tried to invest in a skill that allows seeing past people’s words to their true meaning and soul. So it might indeed make 0-8% sense to someone else.

    Eli is saying that Soros because as a Jew and had a Bar Mitzvah at 13, is responsible as an adult for his actions, contrary to what Niko said. Soros steals from people not because he is a Jew, but because he is Soros, is the approximate translation. And finally, Eli would like George Soros to be the one detained by the Iranians as a hostage cum spy, rather than one of his underlings.

  36. [...] 27th, 2007 · No Comments Bookworm Room writes a very nice piece on Pres. G. W. Bush and his friends and enemies: I’m talking about some of the less expected Bush supporters: the Czechs, the Albanians, the [...]

  37. I liked reading this, a good quick read.

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