Y got it right the second time.

“Or was it the other other way around. We fought WWII because we had no choice and we went into Iraq because we were spreading freedom there”

I was just pointing out that our main REASON for for fighting the Nazis was because we had no other choice. I do not disagree that the effect of our victory in WW2 happened to be that we were able to help spread freedom and democracy. We went to war for legitimate reasons (no other choice)and it brought about a positive result.

In Iraq, I don’t believe we went to War becuse we had no othe choice. I think it is obvious that we had many other choices and we just chose to proceed anyways.

In Iraq, we went to war for illegitimate reasons and I don’t believe it will bring about positive results–especially not democracy.

Invading/Occupying Iraq was/is a huge mistake.

In reality, it was the other way around.

OK Y, I am not denying you are trying doing this. I’m pretty sure Hitler had the same idea in mind–especially the breeding part.

Are you sure I am the one that needs to pay more attention to history?

Thanks for letting your true colors shine through Y.

Thanks for the response and this provides a good example of how imprecise the English language can be (an earlier discussion.) C.S. Lewis was specifically addressing social mores (as was I) but you still bring up an interesting point.

I don’t care for the situation in Iraq but I also understand, as I stated earlier, it has taken centuries to get where they are so a “quick fix” is not going to happen. If you ever happen to visit any country in that part of the world (I’ve worked in Saudi a couple of times and Oman once) you (as a westerner) begin to notice that much of their animosity for the U.S. is because of their relatively closed societies. Once, I was on an elevator in a hotel and the elevator stopped for a Saudi man and his wife to get on. She (covered from head to toe of course) immediately stepped to the back of the elevator and faced the back corner. The Saudi man and I each stood towards the front of the elevator facing forward. These people are not “like Americans” who just happen to live in the Middle East (which is why just liberating them didn’t result in an immediate democracy like ours.)

The terrorists may not have been explicitly Iraqi but Sadaam did supply financial aid to the terrorists (including payments to the families of Palestinian homicide bombers.) Make no mistake, we are in the middle of a serious war of cultures and appeasement will just embolden our enemies. So now let’s say we didn’t invade Iraq, depose Sadaam, or try to instill a non-puppet regime democracy in Iraq. What would you propose we do? Is there a country you would have preferred we invade? Keep in mind, choosing to sit on one’s butt doing nothing or worse, appeasement to try to keep the peace (e.g. Neville Chamberlain) isn’t going to make this problem go away and to do so is naive.

Face it, we live in a world economy and you can’t shove that genie back into the bottle. I don’t believe its imperialistic goals that caused the problem as you stated; you have a repressive society being exposed to the American lifestyle (MTV, music, clothing, etc. and many in these countries hate it.) Would you suggest we develop a technology to block our radio waves so these people can’t receive them? That’s the big change that’s occurred since WWII, not the U.S. becoming an empire (why do Muslims riot in France since they don’t persue the policies you’ve identified?) We don’t have to do anything more than live our lives and allow these countries to observe us to instill a hatred for us and our way of life. Why do you think satellite dishes have been outlawed in many of these Muslim countries? We absolutely disagree on the problem and whether you believe it or not, it’s going to come down to us or them–I choose us. Terrorism will only be overcome by our resolve to keep hitting them until all of the radicals have been beaten back. Once the majority of the populations of these countries come to understand the concepts of openness and freedom, they will also develop the will and means to support it.

We can agree to disagree but I have no doubt that the path you wish to pursue will inevitably lead to harm for us.