Comments on: The Fox journalists are free men http://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/ She escaped from the belly of the liberal beast Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:52:35 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: catsinthecradle http://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/#comment-9311 catsinthecradle Mon, 28 Aug 2006 23:00:21 +0000 https://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/#comment-9311 There's little doubt that the two Fox newsmen probably would have eventually had their heads chopped off it they didn't "convert." My concern is, what are the ramifications to them and, especially, other journalists and observers now? The Christian Science Monitor reporter who was recently released after months of captivity never capitulated to any conversion because, she said, if she had, she would have then been considered solidly under Islamic law and all that that means. If, for instance, she continued to wear her scarf incorrectly, showing a little hair, she could have been punished severely, even killed, with fundamentalist Islamic "justification." The Fox newsmen say their conversion wasn't real. Islamic terrorists could see that as a deep insult to their radical faith. As others have written, it won't be safe for them to go on assignments in many foreign areas. And what happens to others who are kidnapped and face the threat of forced conversion? If they convert, real or not, it could be interpreted as fake, and they could be killed anyway. Methinks the Foxies may have played a dangerous card that will further increase the danger in countries harboring Islamic bullies. There’s little doubt that the two Fox newsmen probably would have eventually had their heads chopped off it they didn’t “convert.” My concern is, what are the ramifications to them and, especially, other journalists and observers now?

The Christian Science Monitor reporter who was recently released after months of captivity never capitulated to any conversion because, she said, if she had, she would have then been considered solidly under Islamic law and all that that means. If, for instance, she continued to wear her scarf incorrectly, showing a little hair, she could have been punished severely, even killed, with fundamentalist Islamic “justification.”

The Fox newsmen say their conversion wasn’t real. Islamic terrorists could see that as a deep insult to their radical faith. As others have written, it won’t be safe for them to go on assignments in many foreign areas. And what happens to others who are kidnapped and face the threat of forced conversion? If they convert, real or not, it could be interpreted as fake, and they could be killed anyway.

Methinks the Foxies may have played a dangerous card that will further increase the danger in countries harboring Islamic bullies.

]]> By: Trish Olsen http://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/#comment-9299 Trish Olsen Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:54:46 +0000 https://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/#comment-9299 I agree with Mama that "terror is an astounding motivator." Under extreme duress, the mind can become as pliable as play-doh. Remember Patti Hearst? Even Elizabeth Smart... That's why the John McCains of the world are so exceptional & rare. After Centanni & Wiig have some down time in a safe place (like good ol' US Soil), there's bound to be a whole lot more to the story. I agree with Mama that “terror is an astounding motivator.” Under extreme duress, the mind can become as pliable as play-doh. Remember Patti Hearst? Even Elizabeth Smart… That’s why the John McCains of the world are so exceptional & rare.
After Centanni & Wiig have some down time in a safe place (like good ol’ US Soil), there’s bound to be a whole lot more to the story.

]]> By: Ymarsakar http://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/#comment-9271 Ymarsakar Mon, 28 Aug 2006 01:09:30 +0000 https://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/#comment-9271 It's not terror. Bonding with captors is known as a survival reaction. If you rely upon a person for survival, you will become attached to that person emotionally. Especially if you know that your survival hinges upon how you react to that person. If you know you can get away with a lot, like the GitMo prisoners, then they don't become bonded to you and will continue to feel a loyalty to first one. Given that the loyalty of journalists to their nation aren't exactly concrete hard, it is not hard to shift them once captured. It’s not terror. Bonding with captors is known as a survival reaction. If you rely upon a person for survival, you will become attached to that person emotionally.

Especially if you know that your survival hinges upon how you react to that person. If you know you can get away with a lot, like the GitMo prisoners, then they don’t become bonded to you and will continue to feel a loyalty to first one.

Given that the loyalty of journalists to their nation aren’t exactly concrete hard, it is not hard to shift them once captured.

]]> By: Anna http://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/#comment-9270 Anna Sun, 27 Aug 2006 22:54:00 +0000 https://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/#comment-9270 There is another type of respect and that comes out of fear. The whole situation is just really weird. And there is also the fact that because they "said" they converted to Islam (even though it was by coersion) they will be held to that conversion in Islamic countries. There is another type of respect and that comes out of fear. The whole situation is just really weird. And there is also the fact that because they “said” they converted to Islam (even though it was by coersion) they will be held to that conversion in Islamic countries.

]]> By: mamapajamas http://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/#comment-9264 mamapajamas Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:27:20 +0000 https://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/#comment-9264 In answer to your question, Book... "Was two weeks enough to get Stockholm Syndrome in gear?"... the answer is "yes". It <i>can</i> take as little as a few hours for a captive to start empathizing with a captor. The captive is mentally scurrying to find ways to avoid antagonizing the captor, and such thinking becomes a habit. It can happen in a few hours or a few weeks. Terror is an astounding motivator. In answer to your question, Book… “Was two weeks enough to get Stockholm Syndrome in gear?”… the answer is “yes”.

It can take as little as a few hours for a captive to start empathizing with a captor. The captive is mentally scurrying to find ways to avoid antagonizing the captor, and such thinking becomes a habit. It can happen in a few hours or a few weeks. Terror is an astounding motivator.

]]> By: mamapajamas http://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/#comment-9263 mamapajamas Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:21:13 +0000 https://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/#comment-9263 Wiig said, "...because the Palestinian people are very beautiful, kind-hearted loving people..." Is it possible that the captors were NOT Palestinian? Perhaps Hamas or one of the other foreign groups working in various places in the Middle East? Whatever it was, it's clear that, as Y said, we don't know enough about it yet. Wiig said, “…because the Palestinian people are very beautiful, kind-hearted loving people…”

Is it possible that the captors were NOT Palestinian? Perhaps Hamas or one of the other foreign groups working in various places in the Middle East?

Whatever it was, it’s clear that, as Y said, we don’t know enough about it yet.

]]> By: Ymarsakar http://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/#comment-9260 Ymarsakar Sun, 27 Aug 2006 18:57:26 +0000 https://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/#comment-9260 It'll never be safe for Centanni, because Centanni wants to return to Gaza. If he has any intention of working at his job as a foreign ME reporter, he will never get away from the constraint of "safety". Once he opens his mouth here in the States, he can never go back foreign wise, he would have to resign and find a new job or be slotted into a desk job. It’ll never be safe for Centanni, because Centanni wants to return to Gaza. If he has any intention of working at his job as a foreign ME reporter, he will never get away from the constraint of “safety”. Once he opens his mouth here in the States, he can never go back foreign wise, he would have to resign and find a new job or be slotted into a desk job.

]]> By: Zabrina http://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/#comment-9259 Zabrina Sun, 27 Aug 2006 18:01:18 +0000 https://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/#comment-9259 I think Centanni made those remarks upon first being freed, embracing a Palestinian friend; it was his first interview, very emotional. After that he and Wiig left for Israel, the article said. I can well imagine a more realistic and honest account of his feelings will be gotten once he's had time to relax and especially once he's farther back on home turf (i.e. safe for him to say). I think Centanni made those remarks upon first being freed, embracing a Palestinian friend; it was his first interview, very emotional. After that he and Wiig left for Israel, the article said. I can well imagine a more realistic and honest account of his feelings will be gotten once he’s had time to relax and especially once he’s farther back on home turf (i.e. safe for him to say).

]]> By: erp http://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/#comment-9256 erp Sun, 27 Aug 2006 16:49:53 +0000 https://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/#comment-9256 Y said it all. Y said it all.

]]> By: Ymarsakar http://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/#comment-9253 Ymarsakar Sun, 27 Aug 2006 16:21:05 +0000 https://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2006/08/27/the-fox-journalists-are-free-men/#comment-9253 1. Intimidation works. 2. Torture works, because people will do things to avoid it, yet in the end they can still be on your side more or less. Others argue that torture makes people always resist and lie and you get nothing from them. Not so. 3. Journalists require sources and good will amongst their target foreign audience. So they have a high number of motivations not to alienate the people they must swim amongst to get coverage. 4. Kidnapping works as propaganda, regardless of what the kidnapped say afterwards. Which means because Bush didn't get these people released at gunboat, there will be more kidnappings used for propaganda or terror operations. 5. I don't know what Centanni was like before this, so any calculations based upon propaganda will be inaccurate to say the least. 6. Figure out if ransom has been paid, in form or standard. I don't have enough information to make an analysis of Centanni's behavior at the moment. 1. Intimidation works.

2. Torture works, because people will do things to avoid it, yet in the end they can still be on your side more or less. Others argue that torture makes people always resist and lie and you get nothing from them. Not so.

3. Journalists require sources and good will amongst their target foreign audience. So they have a high number of motivations not to alienate the people they must swim amongst to get coverage.

4. Kidnapping works as propaganda, regardless of what the kidnapped say afterwards. Which means because Bush didn’t get these people released at gunboat, there will be more kidnappings used for propaganda or terror operations.

5. I don’t know what Centanni was like before this, so any calculations based upon propaganda will be inaccurate to say the least.

6. Figure out if ransom has been paid, in form or standard.

I don’t have enough information to make an analysis of Centanni’s behavior at the moment.

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